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Green Me
On doing the right thing
Posted in Green Me
When Charlotte Casiraghi and Stella McCartney met in London last year, they struck a natural friendship. In this interview for the launch issue of Above magazine, the pair talk fashion versus ethical awareness, improving the planet and the importance of not being perfect.
Charlotte Casiraghi: Your environmental and ethical conscientiousness, both professional and in your everyday life, is well documented. How did you become this way?
Stella McCartney: Being brought up in the countryside had a lot to do with it; also we were vegetarians. My parents made the connection because we lived on a farm: One day we were eating lamb chops and my mum and dad looked out of the window and they saw our baby lambs, and suddenly the connection between the meat and the animal was made. Ethical thinking is a parcel of the way we were brought up. It first came from diet. When it came to working in fashion, it would have been very hypocritical of me to work with leather and fur. For us, being vegetarian was never about health, but because we didn’t believe in killing animals. So I started addressing it more in my work.
C.C.: Were you already concerned about ethics as a student? Did you ever feel that your approach was misunderstood?
S.M.: I was always concerned about being ethical – and I don’t think people massively understand me still. It’s always been a point of jest. Sometimes being a vegetarian is fashionable, at others it’s not, which is very like the industry I work in. When you’re a vegetarian you always feel like you have to apologize for it, and I find that people can get very aggressive. It’s like not using leather or fur in my job; the response can be quite angry. I’m different and I’m doing something different and it makes people stumble a little bit. It’s weird to be made to feel uncool for not using leather and fur – for me, everyone uses leather and fur so surely it’s cool to be different! I’ve always believed that fashion is supposed to be about change, standing out and pushing boundaries, but when it comes to the leather and fur thing I feel that nobody addresses change [through that]. Every single season it’s there, on feet or on a bag and it’s never questioned. I think that people are starting to become more interested though because lately interviewers ask about the environmental connection. Before, it was more like I was a bit of a freak in the industry.
C.C.: Everyone has their own beliefs. Shouldn’t people respect yours rather than judge?
S.M.: Exactly. It’s much more challenging to make a beautiful shoe or bag without leather. It’s the biggest challenge of my job. I question that other designers don’t give themselves those challenges. Every industry should look at things differently, try to use different materials and question the sustainability of the materials they use now.
C.C.: Besides the leather and fur issue, making fashion ethical covers a range of issues such as working conditions, child labour, fair trade and sustainable production. Do you address all these issues?
S.M.: We often say that we are not perfect, but at the same time more and more people like to talk about this side of our brand. There are definitely other aspects to consider. There are organic fabrics, low impact dyes. My fashions are mainly made in Italy, so child labour is not an issue for us. We do work a lot on fair trade. The first question that comes up when we open a store is: can we use wind power? Sometimes we can, sometimes we can’t. Because it’s a mindset, it comes quite naturally.
C.C.: What areas of your job would you like improve and make more ethical?
S.M.: We would like to improve on everything, actually! It’s such an interesting part of life now, and it’s all up for improvement. We use organic cotton and conventional cotton; I’d rather use organic cotton but I can’t always afford to or get enough of it.
C.C.: What are the obstacles to making more organic fashion?
S.M.: We don’t make our own fabrics, so you use what’s available to you. Colours are very limiting. There’s not the same richness of texture. That’s why I tend to balance it out. We get a lot of our organic fabrics and denims from Japan. How environmental is it not to source locally? That’s something we have to work on.
C.C.: It’s impressive how real your fake leather looks!
S.M.: The whole leather issue is interesting. For example the [Stella McCartney] shoes that you are wearing are silver. Why would people use real leather, then try and make it look like it’s not? Any brand that uses leather would tint it. With PVC, for example, you are using leather and trying to make it look like plastic. I just think that it’s because leather has always been there. When we coat canvas, is it less environmental than just using canvas? I’m a great believer in “something is better than nothing”. I’m not in a believer in “all or nothing”. Trying a little bit is better than nothing. It’s really easy to get overwhelmed when you talk about the environment. The more you try and bring it into your life, the more you see how difficult it is. Trying to cut out just one thing is always better. There is this movement started by the UN called Meat Free Monday. It’s a really interesting argument. Because the meat industry is responsible for more carbon emissions than the transport industry, if people would not eat meat it would have a stronger impact [on saving the planet] than cutting all of world transport.
C.C.: Some argue that ethical fashion and aesthetics are contradictory. Your clothes are both beautiful and ethical. Is it hard to find a balance? Do you ever feel like you have to sacrifice one for the other?
S.M.: As a fashion designer, I believe that things don’t have to look ugly because they’re organic; why can’t they be beautiful as well? I don’t think you can ask a consumer to compromise. I don’t think you can say “Here is this jacket that looks terrible but its organic, and here is a really beautiful jacket that’s cheaper but don’t buy it because it’s not organic.” My job is to create beautiful luxurious things. I love that people come into the store and don’t even know that something is organic or in faux leather. That’s the biggest challenge, having people not notice. We do great knitwear, which is where organic is most successful – you can get very delicate natural dyes. So many friends turn up in my knitwear and say how much they love it, and when I say it’s organic it’s a little added bonus to them, rather than a choice. I prefer it that way. Organic is such a hefty word, I don’t think it’s necessary to have it writ large everywhere.
C.C.: Plus, now everyone is using the term “organic”.
S.M.: It shouldn’t really be there anyway. Our great-grandparents or even our grandparents didn’t have the word organic in their vocabulary because everything was organic. We are going backwards in a sense, which is healthy.
C.C.: Many sectors, from food to automobiles, have developed ethical policies in recent years. Do you think that fashion is now moving forward in that respect?
S.M.: It seems to me that fashion is the last industry on the planet to address ethics. That’s something I hate about my industry. Sometimes you get the idea that all these designers are up on their high horses looking down on mere mortals, saying, “Fuck it, it’s fur, it’s beautiful darling!” Those people are out of touch. The high street is actually are much more in tune because they are trying to get fair trade and organic products. At least they’re trying to cater to a need in the market.
C.C.: At your parent company, Gucci Group, there are brands that live on leather and fur. Have you influenced them?
S.M.: They already think about it more. They definitely think of me as the little pioneer in the group. We are also part of a larger group, PPR, and they are very aware of these issues. Our headquarters are wind-powered. That’s got nothing to do with product but with the way we run the business. Are any luxury brands doing organic products? I don’t understand why [companies] don’t improve that side.
C.C.: How do you deal with those in the industry or elsewhere who don’t share your beliefs?
S.M.: I don’t deal with fellow designers. The buyers get it. They find the leather thing harder, and that’s a challenge for me. I have to educate the customer. For example, Barneys is really supportive and they really get what I am doing. Buyers are starting to understand more and more. My peers are irrelevant, they don’t affect me. The buyers and the customers are the important ones: I never forget them.
C.C.: I guess with time, you learn how to ignore what people say.
S.M.: You’re in your own little world. I don’t really know what people say, it’s the fashion industry! If I wasn’t one thing, it would be another - they can always find something bad to say, like that that [I got where I am because] my dad is Paul McCartney.
C.C.: How do you react when your friends eat meat or wear fur?
S.M.: With meat, it’s pretty global – practically everyone eats meat so I don’t get on them. We can argue but that’s healthy. Some listen and some don’t, I need to get more proactive on them. I recently got a whole lot of videos for a friend of mine because she was wearing a big fur coat and a big fur hat. I was so surprised. I asked her, “Do you really not care about fur?” And she said she really doesn’t care.
C.C.: What if you have an old vintage coat that belonged to your grandmother? Should you throw it away?
S.M.: That’s different, but if you do wear it the person in the street doesn’t know it was your grandmother’s. It’s as if you are promoting fur. It’s alright to have it in the house but you just don’t rock around with it. Furs are very historical. My mother used to have a fur coat. In those days it was, “I’ve arrived, I’ve got a fur coat.” It was aspirational. But the reality is that at one time everybody had slaves, but it was just morally incorrect and it stopped. [Fur is] the kind of thing that should stop because it’s morally incorrect. It’s gross what they do to animals for fur. The way crocodiles are farmed and killed for handbags is sick.
C.C.: What little things do you do in your everyday life to improve the environment?
S.M.: I’m not perfect, I travel on airplanes. I drive a hybrid, but again that’s not perfect. I recycle. My house is on wind power. You really have to live off the grid to feel like you are a real environmentalist. I‘m aware and I ask questions. I shop in health food stores. I live in a nice house and I have electricity, but I turn the light off when I leave the room. I am definitely not perfect and I don’t think I’m perfect in my job. If I was, I would have 20 things in 20 shops in England and I wouldn’t sell them abroad to keep it local and I would live on my farm. When we can make things better, we do it. We do things on an achievable level in order to make it happen. If we were too extreme it would get in the way of my job.
First published in Above magazine, June 2009
www.above-magazine.com
Charlotte Casiraghi: Your environmental and ethical conscientiousness, both professional and in your everyday life, is well documented. How did you become this way?
Stella McCartney: Being brought up in the countryside had a lot to do with it; also we were vegetarians. My parents made the connection because we lived on a farm: One day we were eating lamb chops and my mum and dad looked out of the window and they saw our baby lambs, and suddenly the connection between the meat and the animal was made. Ethical thinking is a parcel of the way we were brought up. It first came from diet. When it came to working in fashion, it would have been very hypocritical of me to work with leather and fur. For us, being vegetarian was never about health, but because we didn’t believe in killing animals. So I started addressing it more in my work.
C.C.: Were you already concerned about ethics as a student? Did you ever feel that your approach was misunderstood?
S.M.: I was always concerned about being ethical – and I don’t think people massively understand me still. It’s always been a point of jest. Sometimes being a vegetarian is fashionable, at others it’s not, which is very like the industry I work in. When you’re a vegetarian you always feel like you have to apologize for it, and I find that people can get very aggressive. It’s like not using leather or fur in my job; the response can be quite angry. I’m different and I’m doing something different and it makes people stumble a little bit. It’s weird to be made to feel uncool for not using leather and fur – for me, everyone uses leather and fur so surely it’s cool to be different! I’ve always believed that fashion is supposed to be about change, standing out and pushing boundaries, but when it comes to the leather and fur thing I feel that nobody addresses change [through that]. Every single season it’s there, on feet or on a bag and it’s never questioned. I think that people are starting to become more interested though because lately interviewers ask about the environmental connection. Before, it was more like I was a bit of a freak in the industry.
C.C.: Everyone has their own beliefs. Shouldn’t people respect yours rather than judge?
S.M.: Exactly. It’s much more challenging to make a beautiful shoe or bag without leather. It’s the biggest challenge of my job. I question that other designers don’t give themselves those challenges. Every industry should look at things differently, try to use different materials and question the sustainability of the materials they use now.
C.C.: Besides the leather and fur issue, making fashion ethical covers a range of issues such as working conditions, child labour, fair trade and sustainable production. Do you address all these issues?
S.M.: We often say that we are not perfect, but at the same time more and more people like to talk about this side of our brand. There are definitely other aspects to consider. There are organic fabrics, low impact dyes. My fashions are mainly made in Italy, so child labour is not an issue for us. We do work a lot on fair trade. The first question that comes up when we open a store is: can we use wind power? Sometimes we can, sometimes we can’t. Because it’s a mindset, it comes quite naturally.
C.C.: What areas of your job would you like improve and make more ethical?
S.M.: We would like to improve on everything, actually! It’s such an interesting part of life now, and it’s all up for improvement. We use organic cotton and conventional cotton; I’d rather use organic cotton but I can’t always afford to or get enough of it.
C.C.: What are the obstacles to making more organic fashion?
S.M.: We don’t make our own fabrics, so you use what’s available to you. Colours are very limiting. There’s not the same richness of texture. That’s why I tend to balance it out. We get a lot of our organic fabrics and denims from Japan. How environmental is it not to source locally? That’s something we have to work on.
C.C.: It’s impressive how real your fake leather looks!
S.M.: The whole leather issue is interesting. For example the [Stella McCartney] shoes that you are wearing are silver. Why would people use real leather, then try and make it look like it’s not? Any brand that uses leather would tint it. With PVC, for example, you are using leather and trying to make it look like plastic. I just think that it’s because leather has always been there. When we coat canvas, is it less environmental than just using canvas? I’m a great believer in “something is better than nothing”. I’m not in a believer in “all or nothing”. Trying a little bit is better than nothing. It’s really easy to get overwhelmed when you talk about the environment. The more you try and bring it into your life, the more you see how difficult it is. Trying to cut out just one thing is always better. There is this movement started by the UN called Meat Free Monday. It’s a really interesting argument. Because the meat industry is responsible for more carbon emissions than the transport industry, if people would not eat meat it would have a stronger impact [on saving the planet] than cutting all of world transport.
C.C.: Some argue that ethical fashion and aesthetics are contradictory. Your clothes are both beautiful and ethical. Is it hard to find a balance? Do you ever feel like you have to sacrifice one for the other?
S.M.: As a fashion designer, I believe that things don’t have to look ugly because they’re organic; why can’t they be beautiful as well? I don’t think you can ask a consumer to compromise. I don’t think you can say “Here is this jacket that looks terrible but its organic, and here is a really beautiful jacket that’s cheaper but don’t buy it because it’s not organic.” My job is to create beautiful luxurious things. I love that people come into the store and don’t even know that something is organic or in faux leather. That’s the biggest challenge, having people not notice. We do great knitwear, which is where organic is most successful – you can get very delicate natural dyes. So many friends turn up in my knitwear and say how much they love it, and when I say it’s organic it’s a little added bonus to them, rather than a choice. I prefer it that way. Organic is such a hefty word, I don’t think it’s necessary to have it writ large everywhere.
C.C.: Plus, now everyone is using the term “organic”.
S.M.: It shouldn’t really be there anyway. Our great-grandparents or even our grandparents didn’t have the word organic in their vocabulary because everything was organic. We are going backwards in a sense, which is healthy.
C.C.: Many sectors, from food to automobiles, have developed ethical policies in recent years. Do you think that fashion is now moving forward in that respect?
S.M.: It seems to me that fashion is the last industry on the planet to address ethics. That’s something I hate about my industry. Sometimes you get the idea that all these designers are up on their high horses looking down on mere mortals, saying, “Fuck it, it’s fur, it’s beautiful darling!” Those people are out of touch. The high street is actually are much more in tune because they are trying to get fair trade and organic products. At least they’re trying to cater to a need in the market.
C.C.: At your parent company, Gucci Group, there are brands that live on leather and fur. Have you influenced them?
S.M.: They already think about it more. They definitely think of me as the little pioneer in the group. We are also part of a larger group, PPR, and they are very aware of these issues. Our headquarters are wind-powered. That’s got nothing to do with product but with the way we run the business. Are any luxury brands doing organic products? I don’t understand why [companies] don’t improve that side.
C.C.: How do you deal with those in the industry or elsewhere who don’t share your beliefs?
S.M.: I don’t deal with fellow designers. The buyers get it. They find the leather thing harder, and that’s a challenge for me. I have to educate the customer. For example, Barneys is really supportive and they really get what I am doing. Buyers are starting to understand more and more. My peers are irrelevant, they don’t affect me. The buyers and the customers are the important ones: I never forget them.
C.C.: I guess with time, you learn how to ignore what people say.
S.M.: You’re in your own little world. I don’t really know what people say, it’s the fashion industry! If I wasn’t one thing, it would be another - they can always find something bad to say, like that that [I got where I am because] my dad is Paul McCartney.
C.C.: How do you react when your friends eat meat or wear fur?
S.M.: With meat, it’s pretty global – practically everyone eats meat so I don’t get on them. We can argue but that’s healthy. Some listen and some don’t, I need to get more proactive on them. I recently got a whole lot of videos for a friend of mine because she was wearing a big fur coat and a big fur hat. I was so surprised. I asked her, “Do you really not care about fur?” And she said she really doesn’t care.
C.C.: What if you have an old vintage coat that belonged to your grandmother? Should you throw it away?
S.M.: That’s different, but if you do wear it the person in the street doesn’t know it was your grandmother’s. It’s as if you are promoting fur. It’s alright to have it in the house but you just don’t rock around with it. Furs are very historical. My mother used to have a fur coat. In those days it was, “I’ve arrived, I’ve got a fur coat.” It was aspirational. But the reality is that at one time everybody had slaves, but it was just morally incorrect and it stopped. [Fur is] the kind of thing that should stop because it’s morally incorrect. It’s gross what they do to animals for fur. The way crocodiles are farmed and killed for handbags is sick.
C.C.: What little things do you do in your everyday life to improve the environment?
S.M.: I’m not perfect, I travel on airplanes. I drive a hybrid, but again that’s not perfect. I recycle. My house is on wind power. You really have to live off the grid to feel like you are a real environmentalist. I‘m aware and I ask questions. I shop in health food stores. I live in a nice house and I have electricity, but I turn the light off when I leave the room. I am definitely not perfect and I don’t think I’m perfect in my job. If I was, I would have 20 things in 20 shops in England and I wouldn’t sell them abroad to keep it local and I would live on my farm. When we can make things better, we do it. We do things on an achievable level in order to make it happen. If we were too extreme it would get in the way of my job.
First published in Above magazine, June 2009
www.above-magazine.com